Phases 21 & 22

Thanks to Carl & JL for the average price information from last weekend’s two releases – we were down in Houston for the weekend (on the way back from a little trip to Cancun), so we couldn’t be there. The master plan has also been updated to reflect the newly sold phases.

43 thoughts on “Phases 21 & 22

  1. Thanks for the updated charts. Looks like Phase 18 (Harbor) was inadvertently left out. Here are the avg prices for Phase 18:

    3: 729464

    4: 766323

    5: 786877

  2. Wow! Ran into Bob, one of the salespeople at Bayport. He said the last release was the biggest turnout they have seen. roughly 85 couples (that’s around 170 people) going for a lottery of roughly 12 homes. Even the overflow parking lot at the sales office was full. Clearly demand prevails over supply and speaks volumes of the need for more housing in the Bay Area.

  3. Was very crowded and there is a lot of demand, so they should have no problem selling these homes. But wanted to give a word of warning: There is a reason you do not get full detail of process, contract, options, disclosures until after you win the “lottery”, at which you point you feel so “lucky” to have won that you almost feel like you absolutely have to go through with the deal. As it turns out many people do not buy after fully realizing what they will be getting into. If you do win, you are “congratulated” and felt to be so lucky to have to privilege to buy from them. But once you do some homework you realize that the deal is not very good at all. First of all it is built on TOXIC FILL. The property they are building on has a tremendous amount of toxic waste (check out http://www.toxicspot.com) that has not been remediated. No need to go into super detail, but there is Benzene (a known carcinogenic that causes cancer and linked to leukemia) that has not been cleaned up and the Marsh Crust that also exists in the ground (oh and you can’t dig up the ground unless you get a special permit for fear of exposing toxic waste!). You will also have to register with the city of Alameda because the house is built on toxic waste, for full disclosure to subsequent future buyers. Don’t get me started on the groundwater. Did I mention that this is a flood zone? With toxic groundwater, who knows what happens after a long hard rain… Please do your homework. Of course they will not tell you this until after you’ve won the lottery. Also the property is built on landfill, and especially susceptible to earthquakes and has been noted to be very high probability of liquefication in the event of an earthquake (http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/prepare/alameda.html). Read up on the history of the land area in Alameda and you wonder why on earth they would build homes here. Its really crazy. Ok now for Warmington. They basically don’t tell you about all these options that you have to pay upfront for. Make a slight change, pay for it upfront. Request a change, it’ll cost $200 just for the asking. Once you get into electrical, you are talking more money upfront. Think you are going to be buying the model homes for the published price? Think again, those model homes are about 20% more expensive than what is published. Its all the options and upgrades. The base model floors are vinyl! The base model kitchen and bathroom countertops are cheap plastic (they call cultured marble). The base model carpet, you will not want it. You want anything nice and you will play. You want to use a different designer during construction? Nope, won’t allow it. Of course you can buy the base model and then get it fixed after delivery, but then you are essentially paying twice for certain things. They get you in and get you to sign a contract right away and boy, once you do, you are stuck. You have to go through with it and its all on their terms… and you end up paying way more than you ever thought you were going to. Please read the contract and be very thorough about it. Take your time and don’t be “sold” into signing so quickly. Oh and if you want a different lender than Bayport Mortgage, good luck. Basically they have an arrangement with them (basically kickbacks) where Warmington will get a fee for every buyer who goes with Bayport. Nice gig if you can get it. There is a reason why they are using the lottery system, and its to build artificial demand. If they went out and tried to sell the property as they come up with full disclosures, they would not be selling as well and the price would certainly be lower. It’s a nice marketing gimmick, but it seems to work. People scream when they get chosen! They make you feel “lucky” and excited and then they try to sign you to a contract right away. But after the lottery winning wears off, it has a used car sales feel, honestly. Ok, another thing, please look into the foundations. Its built on loose soil and landfill so you want a good strong foundation (http://johnbridge.com/concrete_slabs.htm). Please be sure to take a seasoned inspector or contractor with you to look at construction. One last thing if you have problems you have limited recourse due to a law that limits the builders’ liability and your options for legal recourse. Just be sure that once you make the decision to buy you will be stuck with it for a while. Think you can buy it and flip it? With all of the costs of options, upgrades, expense and fees, closing costs, etc associated with buying this you will need to sell it for at least 30% above your published purchase price in a particular release. Think anyone will pay that when they compare it to release prices? A $900,000 home becomes $1.17 Million home. But honestly, the toxic dump landfill should be enough to scare you away.

  4. Thanks “concerned buyer” for the information you provided. I am also concerned about health risks. I found this site that might be helpful. toxicspot.com was useful but a little dated. If you have any other information or resource on this issue, I would appreciate it.

  5. Concerned Buyer:

    Many of your points are completely misleading, so I am not sure what your agenda is.

    1. re: the toxic stuff, rest assured that the city would not grant Warmington a building permit if the situation is as dire as you make it out to be.

    2. Most of Alameda is susceptible to an earthquake, not just Bayport. They have taken some precautions (pre-stressed concrete foundation etc) that will withstand the shaking to some extent. But this is one of the pitfalls of living in the bay area. Get used to it.

    3. The base model options (atleast in the Pointe) are pretty decent and most people will be able to live with them. Nobody is forcing you to upgrade.

    4. Your comment re: forcing to use Bayport Mortgage is egregious and completely misleading. There is NO such compulsion and you are free to use any lender you feel fit. Please don’t spread such falsehoods.

    Cheers!

  6. btw, the records and full disclosures are available to anybody (not just for those who “won” the lottery).

    What really is your motivation in posting such wildy inaccurate stuff? I am no lawyer, but Bayport could subpoena for your IP address and take you to court for defamation! So unless you can backup your claims, I would desist from posting such drivel here.

    Cheers!

  7. Hello Concerned Buyer,
    Thanks for the update. I fell in love with the area and Warmington’s designs when I first saw it. But after reading your post, I’m having second thoughts. I’ll do more research as you suggested, it is quite a big investment. Thanks.

    “not quite so sure now”….

  8. “concerend buyer”:

    The toxicspot.com site that you refer to talks about the main Alameda Naval base and not Bayport. The last update to this site was on 6/01/2001, not quite recent, don’t you think?

    The Bayport site has been certified by the city for development so I wouldn’t worry too much about that.

    Please don’t post such falsehoods without first verifying.

    Regards,
    JP.

  9. HC, the link you provided is the same as that available from toxicspot.com (ie: from 2001).

    btw, I stopped by the city office last year and they have the most recent documents. I suggest reading these if you are interested.

  10. I would like to comment on Concerned Buyer’s remarks-

    Although he is absolutely correct that Bayport is over landfill, it is no different than many other cities around the bay. Take Foster City for instance- anyone flying into SFO has surely witnessed that entire city over landfill. Yet, it survived the Loma-Prieta earthquake in ’89 without major catastrophe. Why? I can’t say for sure as I’m no expert, but my guess would be because of the improved construction technology.

    It is also the same with Bayport homes- these homes have been built with reinforced concert foundations w/ internal and exterior shear walls to withstand quakes. I have seen the quality of construction in my home and can attest that they are well-built.

    As for the toxic soil, yes, there is a marsh crust beneath the surface (~4 to 10 feet). It is a layer of contaminated soil left behind from the days when there were no regulations about dumping crap into the bay. It’s mostly composed of oil and other petrochemicals. It should be noted that the builders did excavate and replace a considerable amount of the contaminated soil from the vicinity.

    In any case, this is similar to other new home developments (if you haven’t noticed, most new communities are built over flawed land (i.e. San Leandro – pesticides from cherry farms, in Oakland – along hillsides prone to fires or slides, in San Ramon – in desolate, arid, plains subjected to high winds). The fact is, most good land in the bay area is already developed and if not, too expensive for you or I to afford.

    In any case, the marsh crust was a major concern for us as well but the way I see it is this: I don’t plan to dig a well or a pool in my backyard and certainly don’t plan to be drinking or bathing in the ground water. As long as I live in my house (and not under it), I think we’ll be safe.

    Benzene plum- you got me there. This is nasty stuff. It is colorless and odorless and causes cancer. All I can say is that benzene is around us– at gas stations, in car exhaust, cigarette smoke, paints, glues, detergents, etc. (http://www.consumer-guides.info/toxicology/benzene.html)

    My only comment is that it is only present / detected in certain areas in Bayport (namely, in the north-west corner). If you plan to buy a house there, I would think twice; otherwise, it has not been located elsewhere in the neighborhood. Knock-on-wood.

    Okay, now to comment on the standard options. It is not vinyl floors everywhere and the kitchen and bathroom countertops are not cultured marble / plastic. Not sure where they got there facts from, but it is not (entirely) correct.

    In my home (Cove – Plan 7), standard tile is 12×12 in the kitchen, pantry, nook, entryway, master bath toilet area and bath 3. Vinyl floors are only in bath 2 and laundry room; the rest is carpeted. I guess the only truth in their statement is that the carpet is very cheap. So I say, replace it.

    The price that Chateau charges for upgraded carpet, believe it or not, is actually quite fair. I measured and went out for quotes and found the price to be very competitive. In fact, this is the only upgrade (well, the stainless steel cook package is good priced also) that I would recommend. All the other upgrades are very expensive, but then again, that’s how other builders charge in other communities. No one is holding you to it – you don’t need to upgrade and will still have a fine home.

    As for Bayport Mortgage… I am choosing to go with my own. You are no way obligated to use them although I do get the feeling from time-to-time that they make it *difficult* to use outside financing. Just stick to your guns and be stern and you should be fine.

    Regarding kick-backs… this is how all mortgage brokers get paid, so don’t think for a second that Bayport Mortgage is doing anything special. They may be more expensive, but they aren’t doing anything that the whole industry isn’t already doing (including the broker that you use for your last purchase or refi). I say, if you don’t like them, don’t use them. As simple as that.

    As I read this person’s comments, I got the feeling that they tried for a home but didn’t get picked and now writing to vent their anger. If this is not correct, my apologies, but at least spew the truth and not half-truths or use scare-tactics. Remember, there are plenty of people who already bought or are planning to buy that don’t appreciate your misinformation.

  11. One other comment to add- if I were to guess “concerned buyer’s” motive, it would be that they were in the last drawing with 170+ poeple. They’re frustrated, angry, and using this site as an attempt to “scare” people in order to increase their chance. Sorry to see that people have to go through such measures but I guess it is to be expected with such crazy home prices around the bay area.

  12. Couldn’t help but notice that one of the reponses to Concerened Buyer’s post is signed “CB”. Perhaps the original poster replied to himself but made it appear like a genuine reply? 🙂

  13. Various points:

    1. I have no interest besides telling people to do their homework before signing a contract. Its the right thing to do. Warmington Homes is actually misleading the potential buyers, not the other way around! My points are not misleading at all, and anyone that will go through the process will come to realize that. Unfortunately for them its already too late. Don’t get me wrong, the houses are presented nice, but we are overpaying for it and Warmington does a very good job in marketing and selling. This is their business you know. Do you actually think they WANT to give people bargains? Well think about it, they aren’t. They are a big business and they are in it to make money, not to do you a favor.

    2. The toxic stuff… you think because the city of Alameda okayed it makes it all fine and dandy? Please, there are so many cases in history where people have built homes and government has been negligent as well as big business. Just because they have this permit too build you think its safe? Tell that to all the people who have died from cancer living in other toxic waste dumps. People exposed to asbestos, lead paint, toxic mold, etc etc. I’m sure they’ll appreciate your “expert opinion”. The fact is it probably is not “dire”, but there are significant risks. There is more updated information on the website, please look at all the links as well. Also I like how Warmington “discloses” its environmental risks, so nonchalantly worded. Then they refer you to check out the Alameda library. How many people do you think actually did that? Did you? I’m guessing not. For other I hope they do, because its very enlightening. Also please refer to an environmental expert if necessary. This is your health and life we are talking about! Not just something we are buying.

    3. Most of the bay area is susceptible to earthquakes yes. But not most of it is considered in danger of liquefication. Big difference.

    4. Of course no one is forcing us to upgrade. It’s the fact they their business practices are somewhat deceptive. You will not be able to get the model home for what you think you might. That was my whole point!

    5. With regard to Bayport Mortgage, yes you can use your own lender, but have to jump through certain hoops to do it and there are limitations on when and how. Warmington does get fees from Bayport Mortgage, why don’t you just ask Warmington to verify this? Of course they have an incentive for you to use Bayport Mortgage and yes they will charge you a higher than market rate. I think someone else mentioned this as well in other posts.

    6. Yes you are not a lawyer obviously. And they cannot sue me for defamation you silly goose. There is no defamation! But you think they would anyway? Do you actually think they would want publicity that brings out all these negative things about them?

    7. The toxicspot website does cover areas in development by Warmington, and not just the naval base. Again please do research! There are other resources besides that one website, like the library. The website also does provide links, so check those out too.

    8. You see once you are a buyer of course you want to defend the value of your property! Once you buy you can’t even say anything negative or else it might negatively impact potential purchasers and then there will be less demand and then that would mean lower prices… and heaven forbid you lose money on your house! The hell with anyone else’s health or well being! Future kids be damned, you don’t want your investment to lose money!! Nice outlook on life… guess you don’t believe in Karma.

  14. There are few factual inaccuracies in this post by ‘concerened buyer’ that should be pointed out in the interests of others who might be misled by his/her post.

    Bayport is not witholding any information from prospective buyers. All information pertaining to the development is available for perusal at the sales office. In addition, the environmental documents are also available at the Alameda library main branch.

    By law, you have 5 days to terminate the purchase agreement after receiving all the disclosure documents (once you “win” the lottery, that is). So, there is no compulsion to sign on the dotted line as you would like us to believe.

    The original poster appears to be confused between Alameda Point (the location of the old navy base) and Bayport. Had he read the disclosure documents, he would’ve realised the difference between the two. The present Bayport location was mainly used as military family housing from 1950-1998.

    The disclosure documents clearly state the areas affected by petroleum spill and benzene plume — both of which were cleaned up prior to construction. The regional environmental agencies and water quality control board have certified that no further action is necessary. In addition, the houses in the vicinity of the benzene plume are being fitted with a 40-mil thick (10-mil thick in all other areas) vapor barrier beneath the concrete foundation slabs. Again, the EPA has signed off on this.

    Marsh crust is present in many areas of Alameda as a result of landfil. The depth of the marsh crust varies between 4-15′ and as a result, installation of swimming pools may require extra compliance. Given the lot sizes (and the weather in Alameda), I don’t think anybody is in a tearing rush to go build a swimming pool anytime soon.

    Anybody hoping to flip the houses and make 30% profit is living in a fool’s paradise. I don’t see how you arrived at the 30% figure for upgrades and other closing costs (seems grossly exagerated like your other claims). No reasonable person is going to spend that much on upgrades and the last time I checked, closing costs were approx 1% of the loan amount.

    Are you upset because you never “won” the raffle? That would explain the rantings 🙂

  15. I agree with the other posters … ‘concerened buyer’ appears to be one of those folks who was in the last drawing and after being unable to secure a house is now resorting to scare tactics. How pathetic can people get!

    I don’t know why you keep insisting that there is no alternative to Bayport Mortgage. This is not my understanding and it was very easy to switch to a lender of my choice.

    Nobody is twisting your arms to sign on the dotted line. You have 5 days to make up your mind after signing the initial purchase agreement. Please get your facts straight.

    Your claims about being interested in the “common good” of others is laughable, at best.

    They don’t force you to upgrade. Again, this claim of yours is weird and deceptive.

    I checked out the current documents at the Alameda library before signing the purchase agreement (unlike your 5-year old website that you so highly tout) and am satisfied with the mitigation efforts.

    Are you suggesting you are the Einstein who suddenly discovered this “toxic stuff” around Bayport? I’m sure you think you are the brilliant bloke overriding the collective wisdom of the 100 or so residents of Bayport.

    I’m sure I’ll recognize you at the next release as the person sulking in the corner 🙂

  16. [ed: I have toned down some of the language in this comment: please, please try to keep the personal attacks out of the comments. You can see where I’ve made changes by looking for the sections in square brackets.]

    Rebuttal to concerned buyer’s last comments (item by item)-

    1. You obviously have an agenda behind your ranting. I don’t think you’ve convinced anyone that you’re just some nice guy trying to *warn* potential buyers of hazards. They are no fool and can make up their own minds. They are given the same information that everyone receives. You did not uncovered any dark “secrets” here.

    Look, Warmington is a company that does business for profit. No one believes that nor does Warmington claim that the homes are cheap. I feel that these homes are fairly priced at market and with the record number of people turning out, that suggest others would agree. No one thinks for a second that they are doing us a favor. What do you think they should?

    If you think it is too expensive, look elsewhere. There are no obligations here. I think what you will find are that homes of this quality and size will be priced similarly.

    2. Again, as much ranting you have about how *toxic* the soil is, you really don’t know any more than others saying that it is safe. You are a conspiracy theorist. Everyone is wrong but you are right. Look, if you want to believe that the City of Alameda inspectors / government agencies are being paid off by big businesses to *cover-up* or pass inspections, sure, that is possible. But, let me tell you this much: I will believe them before believing you. What are your credentials? Did you go to the library? If so, what did YOU find?

    Nothing? Thought so. Take your own advice before giving it to others.

    3. Again, you are wrong. Foster City, Marina District in SF, and many cities built over sag ponds are all subjected to liquefaction (and if you are going to use the word, at least learn to spell it correctly).

    Now, what are the home prices in those area? …$1M+, yet I don’t see you barking at them.

    5. So what if Warmington gets kick-backs from Bayport Mortgage? Why is it any of your business in the first place? Warmington also owns Chateau Interior Design and guess what? They get kick backs from them too. Great reporting, you investigative genius. Hey, you should get a job at CNN instead of it here. Again, these are all businesses in business for profit. So what if they make money? Big deal.

    8. Yes. I am a buyer and I will defend my house. But don’t think for a second that it is for your absent-minded reasons. I did my investigations and came to the informed decision that I was fine with the disclosures. I am not worried about the house prices because the market set the price, not you or I yapping on this blog. I am not in it to flip it for quick profits. I am here to live in a new house with a great floor plan, in a nice area, with good neighbors. I am not trying to pump Warmington or am I trying to hide your little secret in order to sucker others into the area. Quite frankly, I wouldn’t want you as a neighbor as you sound like some paranoid freak.

    Now, why do I think that you are [wrong]? Here’s why:

    1. “Request a change, it’ll cost $200 just for the asking” – This is only true if you do not like the pre-configured floor plan (i.e. – You want a bedroom instead of a loft or the optional French door at dining room). Yes, they charge $200, but will refund $100 at closing if it is still in time to make the changes.

    2. “Did I mention that this is a flood zone” – Not sure where [concerned buyer] got this, but on my title report, it says that this house is NOT in any flood zone.

    3. “Once you get into electrical, you are talking more money upfront.” – Only truth here is that electrical upgrades cost money. But, if you don’t want or can’t afford, no problem. Not everyone needs to have additional recessed lights (already comes with in kitchen, hallways, nooks, pantry, etc) or more outlets.

    4. “One last thing if you have problems you have limited recourse due to a law that limits the builders’ liability and your options for legal recourse.” – It’s called arbitration and everyone uses this route these days. So, no big *surprise* here.

    5. “The base model floors are vinyl!” – wrong again, […]. Completely not true. Only two rooms in my house has vinyl floors: Upstairs bath and the laundry room. Where do you get your facts from?

    6. “The base model kitchen and bathroom countertops are cheap plastic (they call cultured marble).” – Again, completely wrong. Standard is 4×4 tiles. All of them. The only place where they use cultured is in guest bathrooms. Otherwise, it’s tiles.

    […]

  17. Appreciate all the inputs from all of you. Is there a way where we can get hold of upgrade price lists? I was looking at the Shapell’s site and they do have a price list of their upgrades for all their plans. It will be nice for us who are interested in Bayport to get hold of a price list. To “Bayport Resident”, I too am interested in the Cove (Plan 7), you think it would cost us (if I get picked:-) ) $50K for a decent looking upgrade, as one salesperson suggest? The reason I’m asking is because you saw the list. I will appreciate any suggestions or comments from you. Thanks.

  18. I wanted make a comment to “concerned buyer”. Funny how you talk about karma…read your comment again. Your exact words were, “Future kids be damned, you don’t want your investment to lose money!! Nice outlook on life… guess you don’t believe in Karma.” You should re-evaluate who’s going to get bad karma. You’re the one making ignorant statements. You are insulting all of us who have bought homes here. For your information, we did do our research and homework before we bought our house. Why are you so bitter? I’d like to know and I’m sure everyone on this weblog would like to know what your agenda is. Were you ever even picked in the lottery? Did you actually get picked and did you go through the whole home-buying process? Did you drop out after learning all about Bayport’s “big secrets”? You seem to know a lot about it, so we’re all sitting here wondering, what’s your problem? If you went through the lottery, the home buying process, dealt with Bayport Mortgage and Chateau, then you obviously really want to live there. Before you even got to that point, you should have already done your homework on the toxic waste dump you claim that Bayport is built on, correct? If that’s the case, what are you moaning and groaning about? If you didn’t get picked in the lottery and just want to make false statements to scare people away so that there is less competition for your own interest, you have issues.

  19. CB-

    It is hard to say whether or not you will spend $50k on upgrades because it is personal taste. But one thing is for certain: The Chateau Interior upgrades are expensive, so spending this much or more would be easy. There are certain things, however, that you can’t get away from. Namely, additional recessed cans, pendant, or wall sconce lights on the first floor, ceiling speakers, alarm system, built-in fridge, cabints, handrails, etc. If any of these are important to you, then you are on the hook. These are all marked up anywhere between 100-150% compared to what other contractors would charge if they did it during the framing phase. But, what can you do? Doing these options later would cost you about the same if you consider tear-down, install, and patch. The folks at Warmington/Chateau are extremely clever in this respect with their pricing structure.

    Having said this, there are plenty of other upgrades that you can do afterwards. For instance, granite countertops, upstairs recessed lights, interior paint, window dressing, garage door windows, wireless alarm or speakers, etc. Of course, they will try to discourage you by saying that you’ll void their paltry 1 year warranty. But, you’ll only void for just that area (and related areas) which for me is not of big concern.

    As for prices for options, Chateau breaks down the upgrades into 5 stages and each comes with a good sized handout. For me to list the prices would be too much. But, I will look through my notes and provide a few common upgrade. Perhaps what would be better is if you asked a list of specific items that are important to you and I will post the price.

  20. Wow … this place is kicking 🙂 John, thanks for moderating.

    I was a bit saddended to read the posting by concerened buyer. It did not seem like he had all the facts straight and I’m not sure what his agenda was. Perhaps (as others have suggested), he was among the 170 odd people at the last release and somewhat frustrated at the way the drawing turned out. C’est la vie, mon ami!

    Re: the question on upgrades, most of the standard options are pretty decent (except the carpet). No doubt, the model homes on display have options up the wazoo, but most people can do without them. The appliances (fridge, washer/dryer) are definitely cheaper if you buy them elsewhere as there is a big markup by Chateau Interiors.

    Ditto for window dressing … IKEA has a ton of decent looking options that are very reasonably priced.

    If you choose not to go with the standard flooring options, you get a small discount from Chateau Interiors that is used to offset the price of your new selection. This is because the standard option cost is already included in the house price and they “return” some of this to you via the discount.

    To the question about warranty, perhaps you can wait for a year and then upgrade. This will ensure that the builder’s warranty is not voided 🙂

  21. THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO D&V’S QUESTION.

    D&V, I’VE ONLY BEEN TO ONE LOTTERY, BUT EAGERLY ANTICIPATING THE NEXT COVE RELEASE, WHICH I GUESS WILL BE A FEW MONTHS AWAY.

  22. Response to Bayport Resisdent:

    Thanks for all the feedbacks. From what you mentioned, I know I can live with most of the basic standard that comes with the Cove. Whew, it’s nice to know that most of the floors are tiles and not vinyl like one previous comment made. 🙂

    Regarding the interior paint, do you get to choose the colors for each rooms? Or there’s a standard color for each plan?

    Thanks for your help, sorry to be asking a lot of questions, it’s just that, this would be my first time to own a brand new house (ooops. that’s if I get picked).

    Looking forward to more informative readings from you all.

    Thanks

  23. btw, the bayportalameda.com site is really primitive! Based on an earlier comment here, I checked out shapellinc.com and was blown away. They have all the details you can think of (incl the pricing for the options).

    btw, D&V … hope you are aware of the new policy re: the lottery. You get an extra ticket for each drawing you attended and weren’t successful (starting phase 18).

    Good luck for the upcoming release (Apr 2).

  24. For those of you intersted in the pricing for the upgrades for plan 10, I have stage 2-5 prices.
    Sample of pricing:
    Bosch stainless steel gas burner cooktop $130
    Bosch Stainless Steel Covection Oven $412
    Whirlpool Tubs $4,781
    Broan Stainless Steel Trash compactor $880
    Upgrade Cabinet range from $3,680-$18,510
    Gargae Lites (windows) $273
    Interior Paint $3,430

    I hope this gives you an idea of the costs involved. It’s expensive but well worth it if you can afford it.

    As for the comments on using Bayport mortgage, we had originally planned to use them but backed out after the stated deadline. Although they used pressure tactics to scare us into using them.. such as breaking the contract, possibly delaying closing and incurring $100 per day, we stuck to our guns and went with another mortgage broker. So yes, they want you to use them but of course you are not obliged to do so.

  25. Hi. We were actually picked for a lovely Cove home in phase 14, and hope to close in the next 3-4 months. When I addressed my question to “CB”, it was an abbreviation for “concerned buyer”. I was curious to see if after all the ranting and raving, s/he still put his/her name in the hat and is still trying.

    But thanks to the other CB for answering, and good luck. We hope to be neighbors with you too!

  26. Re: CB — good luck with the lottery. I think V read the earlier comment that CB might be equal to “concerend buyer” and meant it as a half-snark, but based on your more rational comments than “Mister Buyer”, I’m inclined to think you just happened to have the wrong initials. 🙂

    That said, Chateau Interiors does seem to have a markup on some items, and close to competitive on others. But everything I’ve seen so far in the process (yes, we did “win” a home already) indicates to me that while, yes, they ARE a business interested in making money, it’s a LOT easier for them to make money if they have SATISFIED customers.

    re: Dealing with Bayport Mortgage vs. other lenders — while we found Bayport Mortgage friendly and responsive to questions and more than willing to review several different payment scenarios, V and I decided to go elsewhere.

    The only problem there is that since Bayport Mortage and Warmington have a tight working relationship, any slowdown on the part of YOUR lender — Warmington will likely be asking YOU rather than contacting Bayport Mortgage directly about why they don’t have Document X.

    So for non-Bayport Mortgage lending — the problem is solved by being diligent and having a good working relationship with your lender – thus making sure both Warmington and your lender are on the same page.

    Folks… it’s pretty simple math. If you are spending the kind of money to afford a place in the Bay Area, one point that “concerend buyer” made that I >DO< agree with -- do your homework. Know what you want, what you can accept, and what you can afford. (The rest of his rantings -- well, not sure what HIS agenda is, but I'm inclined to think it's alarmist, and yes -- I even read the toxic reports too and I'm not unfamiliar with the care and handling of toxic chemicals. However, I also don't plan on swimming in the groundwater.) Getting back to Chateau options -- IMHO, some are worth it, some aren't. V and I did choose >some< options and chose to go our own way on others (post-escrow, pre-move-in), but it's nowhere >NEAR< 20-30% of the value of the house. I could see that being possible if you chose practically EVERY option, but if you're doing that without considering the consequences... well, it's good to have you as a neighbor, and please do consider us when sharing your lottery winnings. 🙂

  27. We chose another lender as well. But had no hassles in doing this (even well after the so-called “finalization” date). Perhaps this was because I was working with a very helpful set of folks from Bayport Alameda 😉 btw, there is a penalty of $200/day if you can’t close escrow by the date mentioned (regardless of which lender you choose).

    Re: postings #25 and #26 by CB (not the “conspiracy theorist”), the next Cove release is phase 29, which should be around the end of April. Check the plan map on this site that John has graciously updated after every release.

    The standard paint option is to have the same color in every room. You can change this at a cost.

  28. I have to say I support our “Concerned Buyer,” insofar as he brings up some salient points for Bayport and beyond. Prospective buyers need to understand what they’re getting for their money, and they need to figure out whether or not the home is worth the big $$$. That’s up to each buyer to determine.

    All the factors that CB mentions — earthquake hazard, possible toxic waste, upgrade costs, etc — are factors that all buyers should be aware of. And whether you like CB’s comments or not, they are all relevant to Bayport.

    Most importantly, think about what your $800K or $900K base price will get you. Then think about all the upgrades you may want, then factor in the things CB mentions. If you’re still comfortable with the purchase, go for it.

    My two cents!

  29. J&C (eh-em, concerned buyer)-

    No one said that your, I mean, concerned buyer’s issues were irrelevant. It was the bitter undertone that made their comments disingenuous. It’s clear they have been to several recent drawings and from the familiarity with the purchase process, suggests a deep desire to buy despite the disclosures. Judging by the bitterness, they were not picked and frustrated with the record turn-out at each successive release. In a shameless and selfish attempt, they resort to scare tactics by spewing lies on this site, trying to scare off other buyers.

    This is where I have a problem with this person. It’s one thing to raise concern and put the issues on the table for open discussion. It’s another to call the area a “toxic waste dump” and ridicule those drawn, especially since it’s obvious they were trying to buy one themselves.

  30. Hello D&V, just wanted to let you know that I am now known on this blog as “the other C.B.”, so as not to be confused with (C)oncerned (B)uyer. 🙂

    Hello Michael C, thanks for the info. In your response regarding the paint, you mentioned that it will cost me more to have the colors of the interior changed, did they give you an idea of how much it’ll cost?

    I’m sure I’m not alone when I say that every single detail that you share with us, even down to the paint is helpful for all of us who are really “seriously” thinking of buying a home in Bayport. To be perfectly honest with you all, I get more response from you than asking some of the salesperson. Not to say that they are not doin’ a good job, they are very helpful. It’s just that we get a more accurate response from our inquiries from those who have actually gone through the process already. So thanks you all.

    …if phase 29 (Cove release) is around the end of April, then you bet I will be there. 🙂

  31. J & C-

    Anyone buying a house will need to consider additional upgrade cost. That’s true whether they buy at Warmington or an older home elsewhere. Any ideas how much updating older homes costs? …small closets, out-dated kitchen, uneven floors, single pane windows, uninsulated walls, termite damage, dry rot, etc.

    Earthquake hazard is a fact of life in the Bay Area… just like huricanes in Florida. Buy inland like Concord or Sacramento if it’s that much of a concern. Buy the Bay Area if you appreciate cultural diversity and having the better things in life.

  32. I really appreciate everyone sharing their experiences and opinions whether good or bad.

    I heard a few people talking about Bayport Mortgage and have some questions. Almost a month ago, I signed the contact to purchase. One of the many items that I signed without really knowing (lots of documents, small print and tough legal language) is that I will use Bayport Mortgage unless I notify Bayport Alameda in writing within 5 days of signing the contract. My final loan approval due date is 4/16/05. At this point, can I still switch to another lending at this time? I believe “Passing Through” said (s)he was about to switch lenders after the stated deadline. If so, what should I do and who show I contact?

    Thanks again for everyone help and feedback.

  33. I would like to add another question. Why you Bayport Alameda require loan approval 7 months before closing? I already provided Bayport Mortgage information to get pre-approved to be in the lottery. If anyone has locked in a rate for 7 months, I would like to know if there is a lender that will do it at a good rate and cost.

  34. HC-

    Yes, you can switch. Ask your sales person for the request form. It’s a one page doc that states which lender that you are planning to go with. Extra hurdle part- you will need to supply Warmington a “conditional loan approval” from your lender right away even though your house may be months away before completion. Basically, this doc states your loan amount, type, and conditions (ie- apprasial, additional bankstatements (if any), proof of employment, etc). What I have found is that Bayport Mortgage will still constantly hound you, asking for a $300 check and other various docs despite submitting this althernate lender form (which I find to be very annoying). Again, stick to your guns and fire back that you are planning to go with your own lender and you should be fine.

  35. I can’t recall the exact number of days but I think the contract states you need to notify Warmington 45 days before the date of your estimated close of escrow. They in turn need to approve of the new lender to ensure you can close on time. Check your contract. It’s there.

    We switched after the deadline knowing that we had a very good relationship with our new lender and she guarantee that there would be no delays.

    HC, it’s not too late to switch. It’s a big purchase so you should shop around for the best rate. Although you may be getting a kick back of $2,500 from Bayport, but I’m guessing you may end up paying a higher interest rate in the end.

    You should contact the Bayport sales person you’ve been working with up to this point.

  36. Re: the question about the upgraded paints, I don’t remember the cost as I chose the standard option. I figured I can do this later (nothing like having a paint party with your friends) 🙂

    I switched to another lender after the deadline had passed without any problems. Although Bayport Mortgage still sends me a letter asking for $300 fee towards some doc fee — I suspect this is because their info isn’t current and just trash the letter.

  37. Thanks “{rebuttal]” and “Passing Through”. I just called my sales persons and he said I can use any lender I want. I just need to sign a one page “Financing Acknowledgement” form. He was very nice and did not pressure or persuade me to stick with Bayport Mortgage at all. Now I just need to find a lender with good rates and low cost that will approve me by final loan approval deadline. I was also glad to learn that about 60 days before closing, Bayport will give you an estimated (within 5 days) closing date. 45 days prior to closing, this date will be fixed. This will be enough lead time to lock in the rate and get it funded on time.

    Have a good weekend everyone.

  38. Avg prices for phase 23

    3: 769660

    4: 803280

    5: 830780

    Avg prices for phase 24:

    3: 769660

    4: 805030

    5: 828267

    John, can you pl update the chart with Phase 18 as well (post #1 has the details).

    Thanks!

  39. Rebuttal,

    No, I am not Concerned Buyer. And yes, I agree that CB’s tone was too acidic. But he did bring up important points for all buyers, whether they are interested in Bayport or any other home. That was my point.

    Now, as far as CB’s tone, I, too, suspect that that’s frustration from the lottery process.

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