Harbor Phases 23 and 25

Thanks once again to Carl for the average price information for today’s two releases; both Harbor charts and master plan are updated.

There was a lot of (mostly) good discussion on the last thread about the less visible costs of buying a new home (and I don’t think that Warmington is much different here) that all potential buyers should take into account (whether it be upgrades or just the costs associated with purchasing a house).

One thing I think that Warmington is not doing as well as other builders on though is documenting the upgrades that are in the models and the cost of each one. Most other places I’ve been have a table on the wall in each model stating what had been upgraded, and how much each upgrade would cost. They also tend to have that information included in the marketing materials. Perhaps this is an area that Warmington could improve on, maybe adding a page or two to the Bayport Alameda website to capture this important information.

35 thoughts on “Harbor Phases 23 and 25

  1. John, thanks for the updated graphs. Can somebody comment on the size of the crowd today?

    As I mentioned earlier, the bayportalameda.com site is terribly primitive. Warmington’s other developments have pretty spiffy websites as does the competition (Shapell Homes, for instance).

  2. Does anyone know if there are designated guest parking inside of Bayport community? I’m looking at the map that John posted here and I can’t seem to find one.

  3. Other CB:

    I don’t think there is any designated guest parking. There should be ample street parking for your guests. Then there is the current visitor parking lot and the overflow parking area behind the sales office. These will eventually be replaced with houses (but this won’t happen for the next 2+ years as they will be the last lots to be developed under the “Build Out” phase as designated in the map).

  4. The public parking spaces on the streets are designated as “guest parking”. I haven’t looked at all the streets but I recall seeing a sign on the sidewalk on Coral Sea St. stating “guest parking”. I suspect no one will enforce the “guest parking” rule even though it’s in the CC&R. We were initially concered about the availabilty of spaces since the design of the garages are so narrow however there seems to be ample parking on the streets for everyone.

  5. Seems people are getting me confused with other posters here. Some people are so untrusting that they assume I am posing as other posters here on this blog. Funny. Rest assured I am not posing as anyone else.

    In any case I re-read my post again and didn’t think it was overly “acidic”. Just plain honesty and a different perspective than just, “rah-rah” these homes are great and we are so lucky to be chosen.

    The fact is it was a toxic waste dump and it has not been remidiated. You are living on top of the “Marsh Crust” and benzene plum is so close by (not to mention all of the other disclosures). They are in the process now of investigating whether or not the school they plan to build will be safe….

    I just want to provide some good solid information to prospective buyers. No big deal, don’t get your panties in a bunch now. I have no ulterior motivation, and am not trying to get people scared so I have a better chance of winning… how ridiculous. I personally have no interest in buying anymore. I did at one point, but after extensive due diligence I thought better of it. But hey don’t worry, even if I was doing that (scare tactics), come on, it wouldn’t work. There is so much demand there will continue to be large crowds for these homes. And you can rest easy, the prices will keep going up I’m sure. So no need to get all defensive. All I am doing is bringing up vey salient points for people to consider. Some people here seem to think that I was helpful. But your (long term) investment is safe and a good one. Not health wise, but financially, if the market continues to go up as it has been you have no worries.

  6. Concerned Buyer-

    No poster on this board has been “rah-rah” about these homes and certainly no one would expect you to either. Understand the reason why “people scream when they get chosen“ – they have been selected among many for an opportunity to live in a beautiful community. There’s nothing wrong with that and you are in the wrong for ridiculing them, especially since you were trying to buy one yourself.

    Where is your evidence that this so-called “toxic waste dump… has not been remediated?“ Where do you get your facts from regarding the school being unsafe? What “salient points” have you actually provided? Perhaps if you shared your “extensive due diligence” by posting hard evidence instead of your worthless opinion, people would find you creditable instead of mistaking you for some bitter sore loser sulking over not being picked.

    The fact is you have not provided a shred of “good solid information”. You have no evidence, no proof, and no foundation for calling this area a “toxic waste dump”. You are nothing more than a mere conspiracy theorist (and a terrible one at that).

    Let me ask you this: You obviously are well versed in the sales procedure. How many months have you been in the lottery and how many times did you lose? 2, 3, 4 times or more? If you were selected before quitting, would you still be on this board bad mouthing the area or would you have bought? For this matter, why were you even trying in the first place despite knowing what you know? Isn’t the real reason why you “have no interest in buying anymore” is because you can’t afford anymore and frustrated that you missed out?

    Folks are getting defensive not because from fear of falling price but because of your baseless claims. Look, the only person here with their “panties in a bunch” is you for not being picked. Period.

  7. Concerened buyer (with the typo):

    I don’t know where you get your “facts” from. I do know that the school will be built and measures were taken to remedy the area before construction began.

    Thanks for your “concern” and good luck elsewhere.

  8. Does anyone know how much is the monthly HOA ?
    Last time I inquired, I was told it will be ~$210.
    $100 of this amount will go to the city and is tax deductible.
    Isn’t $210 a bit too high considering there are close to 500 homes and no swimming pool ?
    Or is this going to go down once all the homes are built ?


  9. On my CCR, it says $100 (City) & ~$135 (HOA) = $235 / month. Warmington said this figure would drop when more homes are completed and people pay in.

    So, in actuality, it’s $135 for the HOA. Still, I agree with JC- this seems excessive. You are right in that there are no pool, no club house, and no large public area that is in need of regular maintenance (besides mowing). The HOA doesn’t pay for home lawn maintenance, exterior house paint, or neighborhood security. There are a few mini parks and strips of lawn along Atlantic Street, but that’s it. The central park is owned and operated by the City of Alameda (I believe).

    So, here’s the math: Today, there are about 145 homes sold and around 75 people paying into this fund. At $135, that equals $10,125 per month. When this community is completed there will be 485 homes X $110 (assuming that it drops from $135 due to full occupancy) which equals $53,350 per month or $ 640,200 per year. Even if it is less, say down to $85 per month, that is still well over a half million dollars per year.

    How is this money spent today? Where is it? And what are the plans for it in the future?

    Currently, Warmington is in charge of this fund. The residents of Bayport will be handed back control when the community moves closer to completion. When this will be, however, I don’t know and unaware of the criteria of how it is determined (i.e. – X number of residents paying in, a specific calendar date, dollar amount collected into this fund, etc) or even the process of how homeowners elect the committee to oversee the association.

    In the meantime, residents should rally together and demand greater transparency and disclosure on how this money is managed. After all, it is our money and our community.


  10. According to the disclosure docs, the HOA dues are $135 (I think) and will drop as more houses get built, eventually stabilizing at $125 (?). I don’t remember the exact figures … 🙁

  11. Correction!

    There is also a $100 “city improvement tax” in addition to the HOA.

  12. Egads, $210! We were informed that it would start out at $135 for our home (Plan 8), and then as other phases are built, that it would drop down. I think that the goal monthly assessment is $110.

    I certainly hope that the information that you have is incorrect! While we are buying into a planned unit development, there are no community amenities like a pool or community center that would justify such a high HOA.

  13. Bayport Resident:

    As a soon to be resident myself, I agree. $500k is way too much money for maintenance. We need more transparency and accountability from Bayport and can do this only with the full participation from the community.

  14. Thanks for the informations regarding my question about parking.

    I was at the office today and was told that there will be designated guest parking in some of the the streets inside of Bayport. It will be spread out around the area.

    Regarding the HOA, I was told today that it is $135 a month, and “may” go down in a year. But the fee to the city of Alameda is $1200 a year, which is another $100 a month on top of the HOA, then there’s the property tax too.

    To me, Bayport is a great place to live in, and I’m sure Warmington is aware of this, because of the high turn out in each Phase release and the applicant’s for qualification. But I do hope that they will take into consideration our concern regarding this high monthly fee. Do you think they read our posts here? 🙂
    I agree with most of the comments here, that there is no pool, nor community ammenities, and HOA is still high. Just want to share with you all, for comparison only, that an HOA in one of the the Shapell communities in San Ramon charges $35 a month.

  15. Rebuttal,

    Nice response. No one on any blog has the right to call someone’s opinion “worthless” — regardless of whether or not Concerned Buyer provided “hard evidence.” He has a right to his opinion and he brought up good points that every buyer should be aware of. Maybe you’re having second thoughts about Bayport because you’re so defensive about it? Hmmm….

  16. J&C:

    Good point … but would you be saying the same thing if you had won the right to buy a house in Bayport? I know that you tried the lottery a few times and eventually ended up buying in Oakland? It is all a matter of context, my dear friend … 🙂

  17. J&C-

    Proud homeowner. No doubts whatsoever.

    Look back on Concerned Buyer’s posts on March 23rd where he makes absolutely false statements about the flooring, countertops, flood zone, mortgage, and now about the school, etc.

    Opinions are great but deliberate factual inaccuracies with ill intentions is another which is why I am defensive.

  18. Question to the current Bayport residents:

    I was looking at the title insurance fees that First American Title charges and it seems way out of whack, especially for a brand new home. Coincidentally, I read these articles about kickbacks and was curious to know if your title premiums were reduced as a result.

    California official accuses title insurance firms of kickbacks

    First American Title Insurance lowers rate

    just google for “first american kickbacks” and you’ll see plenty of other links.


  19. To Sidewalk:

    What is “city improvement tax” ? Is this unique to the city of Alameda?

  20. We were told that the additional $1200/month would go towards the city’s costs of maintaining the lights in Bayport. Seems a bit high to change a lightbulb…

  21. $100/month for Mello Roos is not just for light-bulbs, it includes maintenance of the roads, park (when it does get built) and the occasional police patrol. There is no way to opt out of this.

    The HOA fees is a different story.

    As residents of Bayport, we should all get together and ask Warmington to reduce the HOA fees. $135/month for the estimated 450+ houses works out to be around $725k/year. We all have an equal say in the HOA and if we can find enough people to ask for a reduction in the HOA fees, Warmington will have no alternative but to agree.



  22. Jim,

    I agree. It will be important to first learn how this money is handled/spent. Only then can we determine what should be the reasonable amount. There maybe costs/plans that we are unaware of. Transparency first, then accountability.

    If it is determined that we are over-contributing, we should take a grass-root approach (i.e. – signed petitions) to request for an adjustment.

    I have created a MSN message board to unite all Bayport Residents:


    You will need to join if you want to post messages. Here, you will find message boards, calendar to post events, and an email distribution list with fellow Bayport neighbors.

    This is to unite all concerned Bayport residents and provide a discussion forum for all.

  23. From Toxic Spot’s site-
    “Corrective Action is complete. Confidently, DTSC has again certified that any exposure of future Bayport residents to residual toxins at the former East Housing site does not make the area unsafe for you and your family to live on.”

    From the DTSC site-(http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/database/Calsites/CALP001.CFM?IDNUM=01970013)-

    “Unless disturbed, there is no completed exposure pathway for the marsh crust contamination.”

    “No contaminants have been found exceeding action levels.”

    “The only likely exposure pathway for groundwater is illicit backyard wells used for irrigation and subsequent dermal contact, inhalation, or ingestion.”

    “Groundwater samples from East Housing also indicate no contaminants are present exceeding action levels.”

  24. Another release (phase 27, Harbor) coming up this Saturday. John, will you be there?

  25. So … how many folks turned up for the release on Saturday? I think there were 5 houses.

  26. Well, this place seems to have quitened down (perhaps as a result of no new releases)? John,
    can you please update the charts when you get a chance?


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